Interview with Gary Goldberg, WRPI-91. 5 FM                  www.wrpi.org
Schenechtady, NY
October 26, 2006

IN THE SPIRIT : The music you are listening to is from WAH! Wah! is with us now and I want to welcome her to In the Spirit. Good morning, Wah!

Wah!: Good morning Gary.

IN THE SPIRIT : Thank you for being with us. I really appreciate your presence and your work. Your new CD Embrace: a collection of songs to Ammachi are songs from a number of previous CDs, is that correct? Tell us how long you have known Ammachi.

Wah!: Yes. I met her about 12 years ago; she told a devotee to make a CD of devotional songs. He had not the first idea how to go about doing it, so he asked Her for some advice. She said get the devotees together and have them sing; hire professional musicians to arrange and produce the music. So that's how I came in, through music, and I guess that has always been my connection to her. Each year I wrote a song or helped in some way with their annual English Bhajan series. Some of the songs on Embrace are from those albums. Embrace spans a five or six year time period.

IN THE SPIRIT : A very nice collection. Listeners who are well aware of your music know that you have put out so much great music throughout a period of time. I personally know you through the Sacred Pulse Music Festival at Kripalu in Lenox, MA. Last summer. Your music is so affecting to me, and I am a great lover of chanting (kirtan). The way you do chanting with the electric bass and having a great band with you all the time... Your programs are so joyful and your personal devotion is so solid. You have opened up this channel - a very powerful channel through music. I think live performance is something you excel at, because you have surrendered and allowed this energy to come about.

Wah!: That's very sweet. Yes I have discovered through the years, that the moment I open my mouth to sing, meditative energy is present for me. I definitely feel a lot of beings, guides and masters coming to help with that. The sound of the band has changed. I enjoy exploring new styles, I enjoy playing the bass because it's so grounding, I enjoy rocking out. And yet even in the midst of all that noise, there's a deep presence which never faulters. It's why I come back to it, and must be why others come back to it as well.

IN THE SPIRIT : I think we all recognize in each other what business we are involved in.

Wah!: It is the business of the heart. We are moving from a fear-based society into a heart-based society. The work that you do and I do is part of that shift. It is a truly amazing shift in consciousness happening in every level of human activity.

IN THE SPIRIT : It's much more powerful than words can describe. Your name is a word beyond description as well. Can you tell us its meaning?

Wah!: Wah! is one of those seed syllables that has the same basic meaning in all languages. If you say "Ma" in any language, most people will know who you are talking about. (laughter) If you say "Wah" it is a similar experience. In English it translates as "wow!". It's a feeling of indescribable bliss and amazement. It's just "wow!" It exists in Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Sanskrit. I have found out through the years that it crosses all cultural boundaries.

IN THE SPIRIT : I would like to explore your new book a little bit, Dedicating Your Life to Spirit.

Wah!: Dedicating Your Life to Spirit is mostly taken from the retreats I lead - it's a compilation of lectures, yoga classes, concert talks, magazine articles and teacher training modules I have shared over the past five years. Because it's transcribed, actually words I've spoken in the moment, the book has a relaxed feel, like we're hanging out in a room together. It's very special.

IN THE SPIRIT : I've always loved your live concerts because of that. I love the teaching as well as the music. The words that you speak in collaboration with the music really help to elevate the consciousness of the audience. Are these words from the concerts?

Wah!: Yes, how wonderful.

IN THE SPIRIT : In one section of the book, you discuss roles - the different roles that we play in life. You say, "As your roles becomes clear, get as much information about that roles as you can. Do research. Find other people who have played that role as you can. Playing a role may seem superficial. 'Oh it's just a role I have to play. It's not really me.' In fact it is vital to your growth. You have to play this role. It is essential to igniting the next layer of who you are." I felt that was so right on when I read that. Like you say, a lot of people put down the role they have to play, pretending it's not really them.

Wah!: There are a lot of ways we can avoid participating fully in our lives, we can avoid being in the now, avoid being present with ourselves. Those words that were spoken are a way to get you 100% involved in whatever you are doing. You may feel "Oh this is just day-to-day stuff." or "It doesn't really matter." or "Man, I just wasted another year." Those are all ways you can disconnect from the process you are in.

Take you for example. Your role as a teacher and as a bringer of light through your interviews and through your radio station, is vital. It has opened up areas of your personality and your soul that want to be activated. And so every little phone call you make, every email, every contact you make, all the details surrounding that role are involved in activating these new frequencies. I would imagine that you were not an interviewer ten years ago. Am I right? And the process of interviewing and the process of talking with people has activated something in you. This role is something that others have successfully ventured into. So you find them. You study John Stewart, how does he get people engaged, how does he draw out the true personality of the person he's talking to? And so as you become more skilled at that role, it activates certain frequencies in you which are healing for you. And which then make you whole.    

IN THE SPIRIT: You are right. When I began this program I was inspired by Michael Toms of New Dimensions. I liked his gentle approach; I liked his informed approach and his interest in the people he was interviewing. He was truly interested in them. He laughed with them. He became part of their lives. It drew you in.

Wah!: And you've been able to do just that! It's always wonderful to call in and talk to you.

IN THE SPIRIT: I love to share with you these moments. For me it can't get any more present than doing this. I don't have time to think about what I say on air. I have to be in the moment. Whatever comes up in our conversations, even though I have prepared for our interview, require me to go with the moment. And as most listeners know, I really enjoy the challenge of it. I think it's a way to push the edge. We need to be pushed beyond where we are. In your book, you say 'where does your path take you?' You write, "All doors lead to the same room. We all end up in the same place. How we get there is as varied as the number of personalities out there.... That is the incredible beauty of God's Creation. There are so many paths to enlightenment, to self discovery and inner knowlewdge, and they all work. You do not have to be anything but yourself to enter the state of bliss, so the door is in front of you." And Thank-You-Wah!

Wah!: Wow... That's quite something. Did I write that?

IN THE SPIRIT : (laughter) One of the things I love about you is that you don't have any preconceived ideas of who you are. You just are yourself. You just do whatever it is in the moment. For instance... well I have to give an example of this... I really do love you. I can't help it. You're just great... Before the Sacred Pulse Festival, you were teaching a weekend at Kripalu. We noticed each other and I said hi to you, you said hi to me. I saw the place get packed to the rafters. But you were so down-to-earth about everything. You put forth an energy that knocked people out. But it was so natural for you. You were so regular, so every-day. You seemed so even keel... You know what it is? It's something that goes deep within you. And yet you say you need to do this for yourself because it is a way to reconnect. You say sometimes you lose your way too. It shows how human you are. And even though you're able to be the doorway or channel for this amount of energy, you are here right along with us. You are just one of us.

Wah!: Sometimes I joke that the people who are onstage are the ones who need it more. We're doing it night after night after night, so it must mean that we need it more. The audience comes when they have time, when they can. But for us it's a lifestyle, it's part of the fabric of our daily lives. A major part of our year is spent immersed in this stuff. You can see, then, that it's vital for the people who are leading.

IN THE SPIRIT : I think I recognize that in you, and in all the people I have attended these events with. I remember after this one extended kirtan to Krishna - maybe you remember it because your mic wasn't working, you had to stand up and use another mic... I was told that this was the start of something new, that you like to play standing up now.

Wah!: Ha, I actually tell that story quite a bit, to explain why I'm standing up now.

IN THE SPIRIT : And I was there! And I saw the whole process take place. I saw the miracle of it. And you went into a Krishna chant that went on and on and on. It drove us nuts. We were all in ecstacy, dancing wildly, wet with sweat... and at the end when you were done - I had a good opportunity to be near the stage - it was just a magic moment. Maybe you remember. I bowed down to you and laid my hands across the stage. And you bowed down to me. And in that moment, you know that touched my life so profoundly. It gave me such a boost spiritually. Who knows what effect it's had on me. And that was the spontaneous moment in the now. We don't know where we're going, we just throw our intentions in the right direction and we get help from the Divine, and see what happens.

Wah!: It's true. The whole way I stood up was a great example of the Universe stepping in to help. I was talking to Paul earlier that day, and I said, "Gosh you know I really feel I should be standing up. For festivals there should be a real element of celebration." We talked about the need to welcome the energy properly, to really celebrate with the music. When the microphone broke, and I was forced to stand up, we all laughed with such delight. Here we had placed this intention and the Universe had responded quickly and emphatically. I felt like when I stood up that night, all in attendance (divine and incarnate) stood up and took notice. The energy increased when I stood up. It answered all my questions in one dramatic moment.

IN THE SPIRIT : It certainly inspired us! Your new book is full of photos of you demonstrating yoga postures. Yoga is very important in your life. You think of spiritual practice as a combination of practices. Doing yoga is one of the things you can do, and I think yoga is very helpful. What do you have to say about that?

Wah!: Yoga is really beneficial to pull the energy and bliss through the body. Certainly you can get there just by chanting, and I know a lot of people do, but that isn't how it has integrated into my life. In addition to chanting, I have also really enjoyed the practice of yoga and meditation. I have been blessed to study and embrace all three of these traditions, and I find them all equally valuable, and complementary to each other.

[music: Embrace from the CD Embrace]

IN THE SPIRIT : You are listening to Wah! That was the title track on the CD Embrace: a collection of songs to Ammachi. We are talking to Wah! about her new book, Dedicating Your Life to Spirit. This new book from Wah! has over 150 photographs documenting yoga, lectures, meditation, mudras, and chanting experiences. Taken directly from lectures, classes, teacher trainings and concerts in the US and abroad over the last five years, Dedicating Your Life to Spirit brings forth the wealth of Wah!'s teachings and experience. The book is presented in three sections - yoga, self-examination and chanting. I would like to read an excerpt on "Choosing a Mantra..."

"So perhaps you don't have a guru or a teacher you can ask for a mantra. How do you choose a mantra for yourself? Start with what you are attracted to naturally. For example, I went through a whole year of just chanting to Krishna. I started chanting to Krishna and then I couldn't stop. It was so freeing. I had been in a very disciplined tradition which didn't explore my heart. My heart was hardened. The Krishna energy came and opened up my heart. It was such a new experience. I just wanted to hang out there." And you mention these energies from these deities are appropriate at different times in your life. In your book, you mention each deity having a certain energy associated with it, and by chanting that mantra you can get associated with that energy. Correct?

Wah!: Yes. I'm trying to think of a way to describe it. Perhaps you could liken it to a really good meal. There are certain things you eat as appetizers, then a salad, a main course, and usually a dessert. After you have all these different delicacies and foods, you feel very satisfied. In spiritual work it is the same way. For example, ritualistic fire ceremonies offer various foods to the fire. The fire is your altar. You feed it fruit and flower petals and grain and offer mantras. In music, you can do the same. Many programs will start with songs to Ganesh; it's like an appetizer; it's a way to open the door to the light. And then in my programs, we'll do Ram chants and Krishna chants and Divine Mother chants; these are like the main course. We often end with Shiva because Shiva is the gateway into meditation. Even though all mantras are leading into the same room, it's kind of like the seven course meal. There are different textures and different aspects you can experience through the different deities. You can access this energy through the mantras.

Sometimes you are attracted more to one mantra than another. You'll hear Deva Premal singing Gayatri and you'll think "Oh that's so beautiful." So go with it! Play it for a couple months or a year. Maybe Krishna Das' version of Om Namah Shivaya will get stuck in your head. That's great, you'll access the energy that way. I say let your heart guide you. There are a lot of artists out there, a lot of CDs. If some tune or mantra catches you, nothing wrong with that. Go with it. Explore it. Sing it. Celebrate it.

IN THE SPIRIT : Those who want to sing along with Wah! can sing along with Hidden in the Name, a wonderful 2-CD set of call-and-response mantras. These are taken from live kirtans and there's a wealth of mantras on there. One mantra will lead to the next.

Wah!: Yes, and whatever direction your heart leads you is the right direction.

IN THE SPIRIT : We spoke with Timothy Dobbins in the hour before this one. He is an episcopal priest who works in the corporate world. I loved how present he was in the moment. What he was saying, which is also what we're sharing here, is that whatever way you move in the world, whichever is your experience, just honor that experience. See what spirituality is there. Spirituality is in all our experiences.

Wah!: That's true. Everybody has to eat. Most people have to drive somewhere. You might think these activities are mundane, but you make them meaningful when you spiritualize them. When you bless your food, when you express gratefulness for the farmers who grew the food, those who prepared the food... these feelings of devotion, gratefulness, even appreciation, change the way that you interact with your life. Like Mr. Dobbins said, you could be in the corporate world or the spiritual world, it doesn't matter. What matters is your attitude; it brings the spirituality or meaning to what you're doing.

IN THE SPIRIT: Thank you. In your book, you talk about intention. "Spiritual practices generate a lot of energy. More energy will flow towards you, and it's good to develop mind skills to deal with that extra energy. Affirmations and intentions help guide the energy along a positive pathway." Without intention, the energy doesn't have a pathway to follow, is that right?

Wah!: Yes, sometimes there is a lot of energy but no focus. You need to be clear on what you are trying to achieve. That's why self-examination is so important. As you understand why you're doing what you're doing, as you add intention to that, it adds energy and focus to the direction. For example, you're not burning down the house; you're burning a fire in the fireplace for your enjoyment. Like that. The energy is focused in a way that will feel good to you, that will cause the greatest benefit and will keep you going in a positive direction.

IN THE SPIRIT: So setting an intention is drawing the type of energy that you need. What you're talking about is actual conscious intention, setting a format or structure in which you do yoga or meditation or chanting, and you're conscious about setting that structure up so the energy will flow through those pathways.

Wah!: We all desire something. Isn't that true? If you focus your energy on those things you actually desire, it will bring you to a more complete experience. And it brings you to that experience faster. If you are looking for a relationship or a meaningful job, any and all of those things can develop fullness in you. Stating that intention - I want to have a meaningful relationship which is filled with joy and which has a shared outlook of life and a shared fullness of Self - when you put that out there, the Universe responds. If you put it out there, "Ach, whatever, another day," the Universe will respond to that. And you will indeed have just another day, no progress. The intention allows you to express what you need, and allows the Universe to respond to that prayer. It's the most conversation you can have. It truly is. As the Universe responds to what you say, you become fuller. Like I said, it's amazing to be in partnership with God/Creative Force.

IN THE SPIRIT: Yes, it's a relationship. Divine relationship is the first relationship. It's The Relationship that sets the tone for all your relationships.

Wah!: Correct.

IN THE SPIRIT: So wouldn't that primary relationship be the one to nurture?

Wah!: Oh yes! The relationship to Self is the one you can really examine and change! It's in your head, you can watch it all the time. A friend recently said to me, "If I treated my friends the way I am treating myself, I wouldn't have any friends!" What an astute observation. Many times, we are kinder to others than we are to ourselves, more divine in public than in our private thoughts. If you worship in church or at the altar or you do a puja or fire ceremony - the way you are at the divine program shows you how you are when you honor your divine Self. You have a certain experience. This should filter over into the rest of your life - other days of your week, other times of the day, other relationships. The lines start to blur a little bit. Relationship is relationship - to Self, to Divine, to other - they are all related. Look at one, you are looking at all of them.

IN THE SPIRIT: Thank you. How fortunate we are to recognize how this work is all connected. Wah, it's been so great having you on the program. Thank you for joining us on In The Spirit. Is there any other message you would like to share with our listeners?

Wah!: Give yourself a moment of bliss, wherever you are.

IN THE SPIRIT: Visit her website at www.wahmusic.com. We'll end with Come To Me...

[music: Come To Me from the CD Embrace]