Interview with THE JOURNEY
Clyde Chaffer/ Cleveland, OH
July 27, 2003

The Journey: Namaste Wah! Thanks for doing this interview. Let's start with your background, where you were born, where you grew up...

Wah!: I was born in Auburn, Alabama. I moved every year as a child. My father was a history and sociology professor who did not have tenure at any particular university, so he replaced other professors who were taking sabattical. We moved from college town to college town each year. I continued travelling as an adult, and went to Europe when I was 14, lived in Africa when I was 17, joined an ashram when I was 18 and continued travelling. I don't know that I have an earthly home.

The Journey: Did you have any kind of organized religious experience while you were growing up?

Wah!: No, the closest thing I had was my father's interest in socio-political change. We went to Martin Luther King, Jr rallies, we participated in Harlem Clean Up (cleaning up the ghettos of NYC), we went to Southern Baptist Churches... It was not a religious experience, but I understood from these experiences that the world could be a better place.

The Journey: How did you arrive at the ashram?

Wah!: I was supposed to attend college at the University of Ghana in Africa, but there was a peaceful coup in the government which disrupted everything, and I was not able to go to college. I travelled in Ghana and Nigeria and then returned to the US. Because I returned in the middle of the semester, I decided to attend a local college in the NYC area. It was then that I became involved in Transcendental Meditation and the 3HO ashram, which was located in Brooklyn. The ashram taught yoga, vegetarian cooking, held free kitchens to feed the poor, taught yoga in the prisons. This appealed to me, it seemed idealistic and progressive. So I got involved. The year was 1978.

The Journey: When did you become a vegetarian?

Wah!: I became a vegetarian when I was 7 years old. I was simply repulsed by the idea. I'm not the type of person who needs a lot of food, so when I was threatened, "If you don't eat, you will sit out on the porch and skip dinner." I said, "Fine." And it really WAS fine, because I don't require much food.

The Journey: Their punishment backfired!

Wah!: You have to have some compassion for your parents, because they are doing the best they can with the skills they have. If you have a spiritual child, and the parents are not spiritual themselves, it can be peculiar, and sometimes very difficult to deal with the questions, the energy, and the conflicts of that child. I was labelled as supersensitive and wierd.

The Journey: ... like ADD?

Wah!: No. I was a straight-A student and very talented in music, sports, and theatre. But I was also psychic. I had deep sorrows. I felt the world very deeply. And I think that was something that my parents could not help me with.

The Journey: What was your first memory?

Wah!: First memory of my life?

The Journey: Yeah.

Wah!: (pause) It was the recognition that I had made it into a body. I was looking at my hands and fingers, and saying, "Hmmm..." The vision was unfocused, but I could see my hands, and I acknowledged. "Oh! I'm in a body!"

The Journey: My first thought was "Why do I have to be here again?" Like, "Oh no, not again!"

Wah!: Hmmm...my memory wasn't painful. I did not have a feeling of sorrow. It was just a recognition.

The Journey: When were you first exposed to yoga?

Wah!: Yoga was not available in 1978. There were no yoga centers, no organized ashrams. My ashram was created by a newlywed couple who was told to go to NYC and teach yoga. The ashram consisted 8-11 people, and grew to about 17 people. It was not an organized gurukulam. It was just an idea. My first exposure to yoga was there.

The Journey: On your website, I saw that you graduated from Oberlin College. In Oberlin, Ohio! I love that place. There's something about the energy there.

Wah!: Yeah, it's very progressive, very artistic. I was exposed to so many new ideas at Oberlin ~ I studied with Ravi Shankar's disciple, Roop Verma, and learned classical Indian music; I sang in a Gregorian choir; I studied with Twyla Tharp, Merce Cunningham and artists who came through to teach...

The Journey: How many years did you go to Oberlin?

Wah!: I did my first two years at Oberlin, and the third year was supposed to be at University of Ghana, but that got rearranged. So, I did a semester or two away, and then came back to Oberlin to complete my degree. Oberlin had something called "Winter Term" which is a month of study off-campus during the month of January. I studied with Roop Verma for a Winter Term. I studied dance & violin in Portland, Oregon for a Winter Term. I also lived in the ashram as one of my Winter Terms.

The Journey: Was your first exposure to chanting at Oberlin?

Wah!: What I was exposed to at Oberlin was classical Indian music, which is miles away from chanting. But it gave a foundation and understanding of where the music comes from. Indian classical music bases its methodologies on the fact that each note is a deity and that each raga (musical scale) has a particular personality. Each raga can summon up emotional and spiritual energy. All of those orientations were very applicable to yoga and chanting, which is where I eventually went with all of it.

The Journey: Was Oberlin a turning point in your life?

Wah!: No one thing was responsible for my change. All the things I did at Oberlin combined into one collective awakening. I was in a collegium that chanted Gregorian chants. The songs we sang were actually unearthed in the Middle East somewhere and my professor and his colleagues transcribed and filled in the missing notes that were worn off the scrolls! There were 20 of us; it was a highly prestigious group. We rehearsed and performed in a stone chapel that had perfect acoustics. I loved that group. It was very ethereal. My college experience opened me. I think that's what college is supposed to do. In addition, it was a time of social change; and even though I was not part of the hippie scene (I was too young for the drug/love fest), it still had an effect on me. I was aware there was a change happening.

The Journey: You graduated from Oberlin in 1979 . Where did you go then?

Wah!: To the ashram.

The Journey: And then?

Wah!: The ashram lasted a long time. I travelled to India, Santa Fe, Los Angeles. And then I met Amma, a saint from southern India (Kerala). She turned my life around. I've been with her for about 10 years.

The Journey: And in that time, you've travelled with Krishna Das and had your own band...

Wah!: Yes, I've had my own label (Wah! Music) for about 10 years. I used to commute from Santa Fe to Los Angeles to play local gigs with the band. We developed a following, and eventually ended up doing celebrity gigs, most notably with Courtney Love and Hole. After that, I toured with and managed Krishna Das.

The Journey: What's your mission in life?

Wah!: (laughs) I'm sorry, I don't think that way. That's assuming there's something to accomplish. It's such a Western question... Would you ask Mother Theresa, "What do you want to accomplish with your life?" She would probably say, "Serve Jesus."

The Journey: If somebody were to ask me this question, I would simply say, "It's my ministry." I believe we're all ministers.

Wah!: Yes, and don't we have a responsibility? We were eavesdropping on the social revolution of the 60's, and now we're participating in a decade or more of spiritual revolution. We have a part to play. We chose to be born at this time so we could participate. I myself am thrilled to be alive now, witnessing this. People are turning towards something that can work on them, that will give them a chance to evolve as human beings. Society itself could even resurrect itself away from the pollution and unconscious manner we treat the earth and each other. What's my mission? To participate.

The Journey: There is a spiritual rennaissance happening in the world, to change human consciousness.

Wah!: I believe the best thing we can do to change the world is to work on ourselves. All those small victories of the heart. As we change inside, the outward manifestations of our consciousness automatically change. Dr. Wayne Dyer talks about divine energy vibrating at a rapid speed, and problems and obstacles vibrating at a slower rate. If we do the inner work, the vibration will rise to a different speed and how we live on earth will naturally shift.

The Journey: In 1998, I became a serious student in the "Course of Miracles." I had been carrying the book around for awhile; everywhere I went, it went. I couldn't understand a thing inside it, it all looked like Chinese to me. But I did carry it around and one day I decided to do the lessons. Six months into the lessons, I experienced a lot of forgiveness, healing, and release. Then I met Wayne Dyer for the first time. He had a profound impact on me. I left there a changed person. There have been certain experiences in my life which have upped the vibration. Getting sober ~ that upped the vibration. A Course in Miracles ~ it upped my vibration. Meeting Wayne Dyer ~ Instead of opening a coffeehouse, I went home and opened a holistic healing center.

Wah!: Yes! What you have created with The Journey has all the qualities of a good coffeehouse. It's just operating at a higher vibration. You've definitely got the coffeehouse thing going on, it's a gift. It's a place for people to talk, hang out, and discuss the events of the day. Anybody who is reading this can see your example: you did the inner work first. What manifested itself externally as a result of that work was very much in line with both tendencies - your earthly tendency was to open a coffeeshop, your divine tendency was to elevate people. The inner work allowed it all to be naturally combined in a way you could never have figured out with your previous thinking. When we're talking about social change, this insight is very important. If people move towards a higher frequency, the problems and issues we're trying to solve through politics and organizations will naturally change towards divine alignment.

The Journey: So we plant the seeds... not expecting the results, not planning the results...

Wah!: ... just keep working on yourself...

The Journey: Exactly. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience?

Wah!: The inner work is the most important. Try and stay with your heart. You can learn many techniques to elevate yourself. Do them. And then navigate your actions with your heart. Your life can only change from the inside out. Do the inner work. Do the inner work. Do the work.

The Journey: What makes you happy?

Wah!: Hanging out with people in a high vibration. Being in that vibration with people is very joyful.

The Journey: When you're playing your music for people and singing, where are you?

Wah!: I talk a lot about horizontal energy and vertical energy. Horizontal energy is me talking to you, it's money exchange, it's everything that happens on a horizontal level. Vertical exchange and vertical communication is often nonverbal, it's streams of light coming down through the top of your head, it's sitting in meditation and hearing a loud, "NO!" (You may NOT do this)  So, when I'm vertically connected, I am aware of the audience and how they're feeling but I am getting my commands from a vertical source. I am very present, but I am not present in the same way as when I am having a normal conversation (horizontal). When I'm singing, the vertical energy is more exaggerated.

The Journey: In horizontal energy, the ego is involved?

Wah!: Yes. In horizontal energy, it is one identity to another identity. In vertical energy, the identity is not there. I am taking people's stuff (their sorrows, their illness, their garbage) and throwing it into the vertical connection. When I'm singing, I'm healing people.

The Journey: Thank you.

Wah!: Thank you. You've got the spiritual coffeehouse thing, it's your destiny. I gain so much by talking to elevated people such as yourself.

The Journey: And I feel that way talking to you also. WAH! will perform on Sunday September 7th at the Mind, Body, & Soul EXPO at Lakeland Community College in Kirtland, Ohio. www.atouchofserenity.net